The British Occupied North of Ireland

Partition Is Wrong In Ukraine But Right In Ireland?

A stamp produced by the Anti-Partition of Ireland League in the 1940s illustrating the true extent of British Unionist support in Ireland and so-called Northern Ireland
A stamp produced by the Anti-Partition of Ireland League in the 1940s illustrating the true extent of British Unionist support in Ireland and so-called Northern Ireland

 

Apparently ethno-religious separatists carving off regions of clearly defined national territories through violence and the threat of violence, with the partition of those territories, the forced movement or repression of communities opposed to the separatists, and ultimately perhaps the retention or annexation of the breakaway zones by those foreign powers who actively encouraged the violent divisions in the first place is a bad thing? Or at least it is in the contemporary eyes of the United States – and its allies.

From a report by the Guardian newspaper:

“The public disclosure that the US is considering supplying lethal weaponry to Ukraine in its battle with Russian-backed separatists, reflects heightened American concern that Moscow is intent on carving out an expanded, economically viable enclave in eastern Ukraine that could in time declare itself an independent state.

Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, pursued this policy in Georgia after the 2008 war, when he encouraged separatists in the breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia to proclaim their independence from Tbilisi. Pro-Moscow forces in Transnistria, legally part of Moldova, have taken a similar path.

US concern that Putin, despite previous assurances to the contrary, is now seeking effectively to partition Ukraine has been fuelled by rebel territorial gains.”

Now, what other nation in Eurasia successfully partitioned one of its neighbours and continues to do so on the basis of an alleged “democratic mandate” (for which one should read, violence and the threat of violence)? No, don’t tell me, it’s on the tip of my tongue…

An image published by the Anti-Partition of Ireland League advertising an address by Éamon de Valera in 1949. It displays the true extent of British Unionist support in Ireland and so-called Northern Ireland
An image published by the Anti-Partition of Ireland League advertising an address by Éamon de Valera in 1949. It displays the true extent of British Unionist support in Ireland and so-called Northern Ireland

 

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49 comments

  1. I have felt the same way..I wrote a comment about it on the British Ft newspaper and it got pulled.
    it even more nauseating when the British indulge in a bit of back slapping over their recent Scottish vote..I can think of a democractic mandate which they were perfectly happy to ignore.
    The British State and it’s 4th estate is hard to like.
    Also we have a severe lack of Irish commentators online to resist their narrative.
    my personal view is If we kept drawing attention to our cause we’d get them plenty sick of us!!!! And wear them down that way.
    P.S I try my best 🙂

  2. LOL..I know..It’s just sometimes i wish I knew exactly what the future would look like..If partition would ever end..After that I would chill out and that would be that.
    If the Brits did a Hong Kong and took out a lease that would even suffice..Just so I’d know.
    Everything else just feels like reading Tea Leaves. This is one reason why I would support a spying campaign..To get to the bottom of Official British policy.
    It’s frustrating..This not knowing.
    Also your site is the only one really banging the drum for a UI
    The rest either just say it’s inevitable or will never happen and leave it at that.

  3. According to the Good Friday Agreement Northern Ireland is not an occupied or disputed territory any more.
    It’s a part of the UK until its population decides otherwise.
    Both NI and RoI citizens voted on and supported it.

    So – what’s your solution?
    Cancel the GFA and annex NI unconditionally?

    1. “Cancel the GFA and annex NI unconditionally?”
      ===================================#
      Why not Israel does that kinda thing all the time.
      But we don’t have the defence equipment.
      So perhaps dual authority or else repartition with the free state taking large parts of the wee 6.
      Derry, Tyrone, South Armagh and Fermanagh…Leaving the unionists with a 20 year lease on the rest..Giving them time to either make their lives elsewhere or adjust to the new reality. But only for a maximum of 20 years!!!!
      A border poll could be held..and we’ll see the extent of Nationalist support and redraw the map based on that.
      This would end it..Everybody would know where they stand.

      1. Are you saying that the Republic of Ireland should invade the UK and annex NI?
        That’s just nuts.

    2. More like a Mutually Agreed Unfinished Business Territory …….with Agreement to return the territory to it’s rightful owner. Bear in mind that under the Irish Constitution, the population of the North of Ireland is de jure part of the Irish Nation….and this is legally recognised internationally via the GFA and Irish people born in the North of the country are Irish citizens by virtue of being born in Ireland. In addition, most of the Irish National teams comprise all of Ireland……so, effectively, Britain accepts that a part of it’s state is represented internationally by another, foreign, country.

  4. Hmm … perhaps the problem is not the fact of partition but that the Border Commission never worked properly, so an ad hoc division remained. Which of course gave the ‘Loyalists’ (Loyal to what exactly?) a majority just large enough to allow them to dominate. Otoh, if the boundary could have been drawn much tighter, wouldn’t it have been to everyone’s advantage to have these nut jobs nicely penned up in one corner rather than left to cause trouble throughout the whole island?

    But then, since they were ‘planted’ perhaps they could be transplanted by royal decree to somewhere useful, like say the Falklands where there really is a threat to the Empire from a Catholic enemy. If they refused a royal command they clearly wouldn’t be loyalists any longer …

    1. Do you know..in history ( forget the Date ) the British government wanted them sent to Canada.
      The Ulster Scots were deemed quite hardy bunch of people to “plant” Canada.
      They were really..really..really close to pulling it off..Until They realised it would leave Ireland vulnerable to been taken over by the Natives.
      I have suggested that since Scotland came within 5% of voting yes.This “loyal” tribe may be needed over there 🙂 Ta born orm as I understand you are Scottish AFAIK.
      Sorry once again.

      1. Yes, they bussed them in from all over the UK for a mass march in Edinburgh just before the referendum, and then of course they staged a nice little riot in Glasgow just after. They don’t have any real traction in Scotland, at least not outside a few parts of Glasgow which have a heavy Irish presence of both factions. Their antics around the referendum were probably an embarrassment to ‘Better Together’, since most Scots would have thought, “If this is the Union ye can stuff it!”

        1. I once worked very briefly with some Scottish..who happened to be Glasgow Rangers fans.
          To be honest I expected some bad blood from them..but NO quite the opposite. They were pretty nice bunch of lads.It’s almost amazing that the 6 Counties is one of the last places on Earth..where been Irish gets the stink eye these days. OFc there are some organists left in glasgow, liverpool etc..But on the whole..I think it’s true enough.

  5. I wrote this in December of 2013 in response to an “Independent” article after the mediation attempts by the Americans Dr. Haass and Meghan O’Sullivan went the way expected. It finds application here as well: If one takes real look at this whole spectacle (the mediation), one can only shake one’s head. In a so-called “progressive” world, a country in one of the largest economic constructs in the world can remain split into a republic and an “occupied territory.” Having the invading foreigners vote on whether they wish to remain part of their country of origin can hardly be judged an objective means of resolving an issue of sovereignty. Parades celebrating atrocities can hardly be deemed a reasonable way to rectify the issues of the past. An meirican mor doesn’t help either. Harvard or not, they are clueless as to the details, and that is what it is all about after all. In the end, there really is only one solution to that problem, and that is to return the entire remaining fourth field to where it belongs. There a two Islands, take your pick. There I said it, those of you who sympathise with returning to the “Empire,” pog mo ….

  6. Having the invading foreigners vote on whether they wish to remain part of their country of origin can hardly be judged an objective means of resolving an issue of sovereignty.

    1. As I grow weary of pointing out, anyone whose ancestors have been living there 400 yrs cannot be described as an invading foreigner. Also virtually all Northern Catholics are their partial descendents. You seem to be implying that Unionists should not be allowed to vote.

      1. A large portion of loyalists (if not practically all) see themselves as non irish. They’ll tell you (i’ve been told in the past when living there) that they hate the irish. its incredibly arrogant of you to tell them that they are irish when they don’t wish to be. as for virtually all Northern Catholics being their partial descendents, do you have any evidence at all showing that is the case? i have seen the results of that DNA survey a few years back that showed that northern ireland exhibited significant differences (genetically) from the rest of the island, which isn’t surprising considering the native population of ulster was practically wiped out under english rule. I think it quite unlikely that protestants would have consorted with catholics in the 16h and 17th century to the extent of intermarrying. Protestants in that era despised catholics.

      2. Anyone that after 400 years of ancestry in a foreign country insists on only their own foreign ancestry and uses it as an excuse for atrocity, oppression, ethnic cleansing and ethnic discrimination has never stopped being an invading foreigner.

  7. As someone who was brought up in the Unionist community (if there is such a thing) it’s really heart warming to have everyone in that “community” described as “nut jobs,” hardly an attitude likely to convince many that they would be welcome in a United Ireland though, of course, I realise that this blog is largely the repository of extremist, dare I say “nutty,” attitudes. It is also nonsense to state that the native population of Ulster was “wiped out” under English rule : as this blog never ceases to remind us the descendants of these “natives” will soon be in a majority in the Six Counties, I wonder where they all came from. Any cursory examination of surnames in Presbyterian or C of I churchyards, or examination of those in early Pres congregations, would also dispel the myth that there was no mixing between natives and incomers in the 17th Century. As to Northern Catholics being the partial descendants of these incomers, I give you such prominent Sinn Fein surnames as Adams, Sands, Morrison, Anderson, Bell, Wilson, Bryson, etc, etc.
    There probably will be a United Ireland one day, but a long period of transition will be required to allow the wounds of the “troubles” to heal ; ironic that those who most wanted a United Ireland were largely responsible, through their actions, for postponing it into the indefinite future.

    1. i recall distinctly that in the 70’s about 2/3s of the population were protestant/unionist. why was the catholic population only a third of the NI population at that time? could it have been even lower prior to that? you’re deluding yourself if you think the english conquest of ireland was peaceful. there were plenty of atrocities along the way. i said the population was practically wiped out, not wiped out completely. contemporary accounts indicate that only around 50000-60000 people remained in ulster by the end of the o’neill rebellion.

      a cursory glance at tombstones proves nothing. there is a c of i church and grave yard n0t far from where i live. apparently there has been a building dedicated to the great pixie in sky on the site since strongbow and his thugs arrived in ireland. i’ve been in that grave yard and there are only english family names to be found on any stone. what does that PROVE though! Nothing. presumably there was at least some mixing between the english and non english groups in this area.

      As for Sinn Fein surnames, again non sequitur. the names of Sinn Fein members doesn’t prove that ‘virtually all Northern Catholics are their (planters) partial descendents.’ are the guys you refer to even catholic? from the names you list i can see you’ve included gerry adams and bobby sands. the others i’m not familiar with. though being in sinn fein i guess they will see themselves as irish. thats all your statement proves.

      and the last bit of your comment is nonesense, people who want a united ireland have not postponed anything. there is a unionist majority in northern ireland and there will continue to be for a while yet. thats the reason NI is still in the UK.

      1. Well one reason NI is still in the UK is that a fair % of the CAtholic middle class vote Unionist in the privacy of the voting booth, even if they don’t much like em cos they know what side their bread’s buttered: NHS, college grants, better social services, lower taxes, no crooks like Fianna Fail in the parliament, functioning infrastructure, no NAMA etc etc.

        1. John, I would actually like some proof that “a fair % of the CAtholic middle class vote Unionist in the privacy of the voting booth”.
          Thanks.

            1. Maybe the % of Catholics who actually vote Unionists is fairly small, but nonetheless a large % would prefer to stay in the UK.

        2. There’s also the fact that NI receives 1 billion euros a month from the rest of the UK and Ireland simply can’t afford to pay that much – it has a huge debt already.

      2. “are the guys you refer to even catholic? from the names you list i can see you’ve included gerry adams and bobby sands. the others i’m not familiar with.”

        Martin, you are an ignorant man.

      3. Also Martin..A number of native Irish were drawn into Belfast and Derry Because the North East was the only part of Ireland that was allowed to industrailise.
        And the Natives/ catholics were cheap labour for the textiles/linen industry.
        That led to repopulation.

        1. Because the North East was the only part of Ireland that was allowed to industrailise.

          Er, I think everywhere in Europe was “allowed” to industrialise.

      4. Aside from Sands and Adams, I was thinking of Danny Morrison, former Sinn Fein publicity director and political commentator, Martina Anderson Sinn Fein M.L.A., Ivor Bell, ex-I.R.A., recently questioned re Jean McConville’s murder, Padraig Wilson, prominent ex I.R.A. member, James Bryson, legendary 1970s I.R.A. member : I would hazard a guess that all these people were brought up in the Catholic faith.
        No doubt in six weeks time we’ll have another map telling us that there will soon be more Catholics than Protestants in N.I. and that we should have an immediate United Ireland. Here’s a novel thought : instead of abuse directed at the Unionist community lets have a coherent argument in favour of a United Ireland, lets have a detailed blueprint covering political, socio-economic, education, health, employment, etc, etc, issues. The only point in having a United Ireland would be to improve the quality of life for everyone on the Island: but where would the money come from to achieve such an outcome?

        1. I asked Séamas the same question and he said that the USA, the UK and the EU are going to bow down to Ireland and cover all the expenses…

          1. In much the same way that the EU had to “bow down” to Latvia and cover its expenses?

            For the period 2007-2013 up to 16% of Latvia’s GDP was derived from EU funding. The EU poured over 4.5 billion euros into Latvia during those 7 years for structural funding, subsidising everything from new roads to new hospitals. In that same period another 1 billion euros came from EU projects and non-EU direct inter-governmental funding, primarily from Gemany. That does not even take into account the several hundred million dollars from the United States since the 1990s. Or the Council of Europe funding in the same period before EU membership. Even NATO is partly subsidising the reforms within the Latvian military.

            Don’t tell me. Latvia is diferent!

            1. The funding they provided to Latvia was a lot smaller. 4.5 billions during 7 years is not the same as 4.5 billions during 4.5 months.

              And it’s just your words – They haven’t confirmed that they’ll pay anything.

    2. Of course, there was mixing. There was picking sides as well. Many British who adopted their new country suffered immeasurably for being sympathetic to the locals and their language. It is about staying an invader after your arrival and continuing to pursue your long-practised misdeeds, not so much about your heritage. It always has been.

    3. Ginger, as I have said before, for a supposed “extremist” and “nutty” blog this is one of the few online “Republican” entities in Ireland that has made any attempt to address the nuts-and-bolts of ending partition, advocating for a regional assembly and government in Belfast, a separate judiciary and police service, guaranteed rights and exemptions in the constitution for Unionist/British-Irish/Scots-Irish communities, all the sacrifices and acts of generosity required in order to facilitate reunification. That includes special language legislation in the north-east. So no “Irish Language Act” but rather an “Official Languages Act” placing the Irish and English languages on an equal footing.

      A reunited Ireland was never inevitable and was certainly not delayed by the “Troubles”. That is a fallacy. Had the 1921-1972 Stormont regime gone on unchallenged it would still be in existence today, albeit with the superficial stamp of democratic and legislative reform on it.

  8. why would any thinking person every want to unify with a country that could elect john bruton as leader. the shame.

    1. I would suggest Bruton would be preferable to Haughey. Or de Valera who stole a large chunk of money from the Irish Fund in the U.S. I don’t think any thinking person would want to join with a country that banned divorce until 1990, whose leader paid his condolences to Hitler in 1945, that sent 60% of it’s population to the neighbouring state to get a job, or whose rulers were probably the most corrupt in western Europe

      1. How about a country that uses Hitler salutes to celebrate their unionist victories to this day? Don’t even start with corruption, it is, after all, what lost Britain its empire. The number of atrocious political characters Britain sent condolences to and was the home of pales in comparison to a faux pas made in an attempt to express ultimate neutrality in a political forum, not wise, but it is what it is. As for antiquated laws and ridiculous privileges, see the royal family, 60% of Brtis would go abroad if their island was squeezed dry and forcefully isolated by an act of revenge as well. Everyone has baggage,and Ireland’s is actually relatively small, comparatively. Just pick an Island and be happy with your choice – actually, it looks like you already have.

        1. Tony Bliar never used the excuse that the Saudis would stop sharing intelligence in order to stop a Serious Fraud Office investigation into BaE bribery allegations…..But Charlie Haughey is the “most corrupt politician in Western Europe”.
          You have to admire the whole self delision of these Brits..oh I forgot..”sexing” up the Iraq War dossier on WMD..There was that too.
          Are the English for Real?????
          Mind Boggled x 10 to the power of WTH

      2. interestingly, Divorce existed in Ireland under Brehon Law, as did an entitlement to maternity leave, as did legal protections for disabled people. all of this was lost after the imposition of regressive english law.

        ” I don’t think any thinking person would want to join with a country that banned divorce until 1990, whose leader paid his condolences to Hitler in 1945, that sent 60% of it’s population to the neighbouring state to get a job, or whose rulers were probably the most corrupt in western Europe” but who would still want to remain part of a country whose army committed atrocities during the MAU MAU uprising, Frank Kitson, after cutting his teeth in kenya, moved on to northern ireland to implement counter-insurcency techniques. Or how about wanting to remain part of a Britain that actively supported and aided the khamer rouge. How proud all those loyalists must be that anti personnel mines exported from the UK maimed and killed 1000s children in cambodia. Or britain’s involvement in the more recent massive losses of civilian life in iraq and afganistan, and of course britain’s inept support for various terrorist groups in Syria that seem to have morphed into the abomination called ISIS/ISIL. i could go on, but you get the idea.

        personally i’d choose petty corruption over moral bankrupcy.

        oh, and the last time a million people died of avoidable starvation in ireland was under british rule.

        1. The population of Ireland tripled in the years 1790 to 1840. Which was also under British rule if I remember rightly.

          1. Explain this to me sherlock how could 1 or 2 million people die in a country ruled by the worlds most powerful empire? Hmmmm? Feeling guilty or pathologically delighted?

            1. Famines have happened in lots of places over the centuries. Prior to the 19th c, most of humanity lived on the edge of famine. Famine came close to occurring in England in the 1840s.

  9. I am amazed at the general acceptance by Irish people of the artificial and undemocratically done partition of ireland. Many commentators state that the Good Friday Agreement was overwhelmenly accepted by the majority of Irish people to show that somehow the 6 counties question is now permanently resolved/settled but what choice did they have reject it and war again no real choice typically clever British manouvering.

    I wonder would anyone here be interested in refounding the Irish Anti-Partition league non violent means to campaign for ending partition and the sham of normalisation of British rule in the 6 counties?

    All the counties bordering the Republic are nationalist but have no democratic opportunity to join the 26 county Republic. At partition entire counties such as Fermanagh and Tyrone were, and still are nationalist. South Armagh had an unofficial border poll and voted 92 per cent for reunification last year. No Irish media in print or web form even brings up reunification anymore. The self-determination of the Irish people to determine their nation has never been recognised.

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